This is really a rhetorical question because I am convinced that the program (Hearts card game) by Microsoft DOES in fact cheat.I first noticed it on XP. But, I've REALLY noticed it on Vista. Here is what I mean.
I've played X amount of games. The game keeps track of overall stats. Whenever I go over a 38% win rate (which isn't really all that hot but it's respectable) the program starts to gain up on me and kick my ass. I mean, seriously. I get dealt hands that NO ONE could do anything with. I will lose over and over again; then, once I drop back down to 37%, I will start to win again (I'll be dealt hands that any idiot could shoot the moon with).
This has happened over and over again. I cannot get past 38%!
I looked this up on Google and someone said, "Well, I don't think it is cheating, rather, like with "real" people, once one person starts to get ahead, the computer might attempt to "gang up on you".
Ok, this is true. If you are playing with REAL people that are half-way respectable, they will, in likelihood, "gang up on you" if you are out ahead.
But, this is NOT what happens with the program. No, not at all. First off, "real people" can't deal you particular rotten hands over and over and over again. And, "real people" won't allow someone else to shoot the moon just to get YOU (not in my experience, anyway). But, the program continually allows one of the other players to shoot the moon (whilst I sit by unable to stop them and watch my opponents throw the Ace of Hearts or something on someone trying to shoot the moon...I mean...DUH!)
Obviously, this blog entry is meant to be somewhat mindless. A ramble, a rant. Man, this pisses me off, though, which is why I am writing about it.
I played one game this afternoon and just hit 38% AGAIN. Any guesses as to who will NOT win the next game?
Mrs. B
1,588 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 1588 Newer› Newest»Of 202 posts, virtually nothing has been said about the program failing to play the game correctly. Unless more gets posted on that, I'd say the issue is with your computer. I think the consensus is that a crooked game is being otherwise played by the basic rules. More than consensus actually--I think it's unanimous with you being the exception.
--Blue
My second topic: Games.com plays a little differently on the rules. A player has the option of taking -26 on a Moon Shot (and an opponent can have a score below zero.) I just won a game I would have otherwise lost by using the option. Also, the QS breaks hearts.
"More than consensus actually--I think it's unanimous with you being the exception."
Since a few other posters also mentioned this, I'd say it's far from unanimous.
No, several of the 200-odd posts mention the program breaking the rules. I am merely concentrating on the really annoying fact that I can be beaten 4 or 5 times on an UNBEATABLE hand, i.e. holding 12 hearts, laying the unbeatable q spades last to lead, and the remaining heart beating me!
How on earth can a computer malfunctioning do that? It can only do this a result of flawed programming, not PC fault.
I have also witnessed the q spades coming from the wrong player too, as others have mentioned. I suppose their machines are dodgy too???
I concur. It definitely doesn't have anything to do with a dodgy PC.
Okay. I stand corrected. That being the case, MS Hearts is more worthless than I thought. On so many levels, Microsoft as a whole has outlived its usefulness.
--Blue/RoloCole
Yes, and I posted this information about MS Hearts cheating, on Wikipedia, and it got deleted very promptly!
Perhaps I should've linked here as a source.
Am presently starting freecell on the old windows 2000 at work, attempting to go from 1-35-odd thousand without defeat. So far, on no. 21 with NO lost games.
Someone on here said they'd played all 35,000 and lost 5, which they said were unwinnable.
I believe they are ALL winnable, perhaps give me the game-numbers of the 5 you can't solve and I'll have a crack?
Cheers D
I feel so validated after finding this blog! The first cheating maneuver I noticed was when the game would take a trick in, say, North's hand but would then lead from East. There's a kind of a blip in the rhythm of the play when that happens. The blasted computer also reneges and will lead hearts when they have not been broken and when the hand leading the initial heart still has other suits available. One thing I've started doing is to select three bogus passing cards; then I switch to whatever I want to pass. I think the computer decides what to pass you based partially on your pass but it doesn't seem to register the information past the initial three. I'm using an older Dell HP and cannot find the win/lose statistics others mentioned. They're there for Spider Solitaire, though.
The game definitely cheats.
Play the game with all of the players hands displayed and you will find that the rules only apply to your cards.
Eg. One of the other players led with a heart whilst they still held the queen of spades and still retained cards of the other three suits.
Keep trying to post references to this blog on wiki. Perhaps when a few dozen folks have attempted to do so, it will get their attention and perhaps then they will at least leave the wiki post up (along with their usual disclaimers)so that others can join the discussion.
Its not 3v1
Its 4v1
Stupid dealer
All. Although it's certainly been fun seeing everyone's comments/interaction, my blog isn't about card games, rather, just this one post was (written over two years ago when I was quite p.o.'d about Vista/Microsoft Hearts).
This may be why it won't allow the blog on Wiki.
You're all welcome to continue to use this as a forum. However, maybe you can read some of my other posts, too?
:-)
Mrs. B
If you want to win, stop thinking of the game as Hearts and think of it as MShearts. Now, the goal is to figure out the programmers strategy and beat it. I consistently run between 55-60% without any cheats. I.E. no save game re-entries, no looking at cards. Make it a strategy game and you can have fun.
For example: Know that west leads spades 90% of the time. Never pass spades, it cost less to get stuck occasionally.
No..Hearts does not cheat. It plays a different game. I've played hundreds, or maybe a thousand games and one thing is clear. The program is playing a game where the three computer players are trying to make you lose.
If you pay attention, you will see that the most common strategy of the program is to get one of the computer players to have a lower score than you, then for one of the other computer players to commit suicide. In the end...you lose. The program is obviously aware of the cards everyone holds, and will deplete suits to leave you with no escape...and the computer players collude in this.
Imagine you are sitting at a table where all your opponents are allowed to talk to each other and decide what to throw...and they all hate you. Their mission in life is for you to fail. That's how the program is written.
But, human players would not behave that way, because it is in their best interest to win.
The program is written so that the human loses...
But once you understand that mission...you can play against it and beat it.
BTW Mrs. B. You keep a very interesting blog. One of the best I've seen.
I disagree. I too have played thousands of games and if you watch carefully you will see that the bot players don't always follow the rules. (It's easier to see this using the XP version cheat mentioned previously.)
That's cheating by any definition.
If you like to play Hearts, play with real people either face to face or online. That can be far more entertaining and enjoyable than this rigged MS Hearts game.
When I have played this game in the past to kill some time, I too have caught the game occasionally cheating at the rules.
Since then, I don't find myself playing it all that often. I mean, who wants to play with a cheater?
Thanks for your blog!
Yes it cheats. I have hearts setup so I can see all the cards. When I start to win too much, (not sure of the percentage) it will start to take my cards with cards of other suits. When I'm losing it doesn't only when you've been winning for a while.
Yes.
The game is not only rigged (in a number of different ways as has been pointed out on previous posts...ever wonder why the 2,3,4,5 of Hearts just about always seem to be split up among the four players?...), but it plainly cheats as well.
I play the game with real people. MS's Windows version is a piece of crap.
This is a great blog on the subject matter.
I just wanted to add my two cents' worth.
Watch for the "magic" 10 of Hearts when attempting to shoot the moon. It appears with amazing frequency on the very last trick, spoiling your shot.
I just played a game with 13 hands. I had the Queen of Spades dealt to me or passed to me in all 13 hands.
Amazing odds, eh?
Well, It seems that all avenues of playing this game are substandard, unless you can find three real people that you can have a good sit-down game with.
The online games with real people are replete with temper-tantrums, game abandoning, long delays, trolls, and foolish play.
So whether it is a program, or real people, you are pretty much lucky to get a decent game.
The MS-Hearts, while is designed to gang-up on you and stack the deck, does offer a unique game to try to beat. At least it doesn't throw a tantrum.
Another giveaway that the game is rigged is the number of hands that end up with two players receiving zero points, or what I like to call the "double-O" hands. And if you are in a winning position these will increase in frequency as the game goes on.
As one poster above (at least) has remarked, this is clearly an indicator that the game uses predetermined sets for each hand (so it knows the outcome of the points) and is not really "dealing" the cards out.
I don't know about cheating, but the "game" is definitely a rigged one.
Two subjects:
MS FreeCell: Google this statement for more details: "In later implementations of FreeCell in Microsoft Windows, there are 1,000,000 games. Of these, 8 have been found to be unsolvable. They are games No. 11,982, No. 146,692, No. 186,216, No. 455,889, No. 495,505, No. 512,118, No. 517,776, and No. 781,948." It’s the only MS game I play.
Online Hearts: I haven't found anyone to be abusive while playing hearts in the "Shoot the Moon" room at games.com. Many players don't pay attention to the chat feature and there's really very little time to chat with fast play--which is the only way to play. :) Expect humans to play aggressively. After all, they ARE tying to beat you.
-- Rolo Cole
The game clearly doesn't always follow the rules. That's cheating in my book.
I just played a hand (in a game about half-way through with my position in second place) where it looked as though I should have a good chance at shooting the moon. The lead was mine and about half-way through the play I was still holding the Queen of Spades as well as the Seven and Eight of Hearts. I played the Seven first, collecting one other lower Heart in the process. I threw the Eight next and collected no other points. I then threw my Queen of Spades and of course took that trick as well. On the last trick I led with my remaining low Spade and the trick was taken by North with the Jack of Spades, with East throwing the King of Hearts into the mix! Now where was that card a couple of tricks ago?!! So, instead of shooting the moon and being in a good position to win the game, I ended up with 25 more points and moved from second to last place just like that.
One other poster recently mentioned the mysterious Ten of Hearts. I think the program also uses the King of Hearts in a similar (cheating) fashion.
Vegas, here I come baby!
I'm feeling so lucky today after getting the 2 of Clubs dealt to me 7 times in a row in a single game of Windows Hearts.
I came across this blog while searching on another Microsoft games issue. This is a pretty interesting blog on the subject of Hearts/cheating so I thought I'd add my two cents' worth.
Yeah, Microsoft's Hearts game blows. (I thought everyone already knew that actually.) People quickly tire of it once they see the patterns of rigged play. Like some other posters have mentioned, anyone that enjoys playing a FAIR game of Hearts should seek out players online or in the real world. I'm sure it would be much more satisfying than playing this crappy game.
Don't waste your time playing this game as it is completely rigged. A friend of mine who used to work as a programmer at MS confirmed this for me a number of years ago. I can't imagine the programming behind the game has changed much since then.
Not only is the game rigged against you (isn't it strange how often your position is having to defend against the Queen of Spades, is dealt the Two of Clubs on the hand with no passing, is passed the Ace, King and Queen of Spades all together, is stuck with the Ace and/or King of
Spades and West has the Queen of Spades but always follows your play, etc., etc.) but watch carefully and you'll actually catch the game violating the rules of play.
So, yeah, it does cheat.
Yes, the bots cheat. They don't always follow suit. Your position is the only one that is forced to follow the actual rules of the game. This usually happens when your position is in the lead, but not always.
There are so many better game choices out there than Windows Hearts.
When a game is as fixed as Microsoft Hearts is it is no longer a game but rather an exercise in futility. It's like working on a crossword puzzle that has errors in it (and thus is unsolvable). Why bother?
Just deleted Hearts from my computer.
Stuff you MICROSOFT!!!
IF I GET RID OF ANY SUIT LIKE ALL HEARTS IT WILL GIVE ME AKQ OF HEARTS..IF I RID MY SELF OF ALL CLUBS, IT WILL ADD TO THE SPADES, AND LIKE SOMEONE ELSE SAID, THEIR CARDS ARE PULLED TO PASS BEFORE ME AND I THINK THEY CHANGE AUTOMATICALLY TO MESS UP MY LOGIC..HOW DOES IT KNOW WHICH CARDS I'M GOING TO PULL?
Again, when you play a REAL game of Hearts with REAL people, how often have you been passed the AKQ of Spades?
As one poster stated before, the game uses predetermined "sets" whereby it statistically knows the point outcome of that hand. When you alter the normal flow for any given hand, say by playing oddly, the game will resort to outright cheating (i.e., bots not following suit) to dump points on South.
Just for kicks, the next time you play MS-Hearts, keep track of the number of hands where the point tally ends up with two players getting 0-0 or 0-1 points. You'll be "amazed" at how frequently it occurs. Then compare your results to the last time you played Hearts with real people. How many rounds did two positions not receive any points?
Yeah....that's what I thought.
To illustrate the above, take a look at the round scoring in a recent game....
Hand---South---West---North---East
1------0-------16-----7-------3
2------3-------15-----7-------1
3------2-------21-----1-------2
4------2-------24-----0-------0
5------1-------0------25------0
6------4-------0------22------0
7------5-------16-----0-------5
8------16------0------10------0
9------0-------12-----14------0
Totals
South: 33 (2nd)
West: 104 (4th)
North: 86 (3rd)
East: 11 (1st)
This was one of those games whereby the prima donna, East, was designed to win all along. As you can see, five of the nine hands were "0-0" rounds. West was kept form going out just long enough to dump points on South. This was mainly accomplished in the eighth hand, a no-pass hand, by dealing me a single Spade.....yes, the Queen of Spades.
This game is pointless really. It doesn't demonstrate anyone's actual skill at playing hearts. I guess it is mildly amusing for awhile, at least until the player realizes all the things that's already been said about the game on this blog.
Of COURSE Microsoft cheats! Even a certifiably fair game of hearts would not lend itself to the computer situation---never.
Don't bother to go hunting for a better alternative to mshearts. The flaw is in the mix of a good card game with the nature of programming a flawless application that will perform acceptably (i.e.,like a deck of cards).
Don't submit yourself to a lopsided aggravation. Computer hearts will never live up to mathematical probability.
Ptoe Jam
THE GAME IS A WASTE OF TIME. THERE IS NOTHING RANDOM ABOUT THE DEALS AT ALL. THUS, IT'S A TOTALLY RIGGED GAME SO WHY BOTHER PLAYING IT.
Playing Hearts on Games.com, if you play in a private room with bots, you get a MS Hearts game of three on one. If you play in a public room with bots, you can win most of the time. The public room bots basically don't know how to play. For example, if someone is likely to shoot the Moon, they start throwing in "the kitchen sink." (hearts) It works at time but it fails them very often. I won 7 games in a row and I must have gotten multiple Moon shots in each game--I didn't keep count. On the other hand, when you play with humans, it's a whole different game. Most players are good to excellent and they will keep you on your toes. A few play slow but I can always opt out and go to another game.
-- RoloCole
Yeah Mr. B is right. I've been playing the game on Windows 7 and the game difficulty without a doubt depends on the user's win percentage. For some reason on my computer you can actually exit out of a game and restart a new one without suffering a loss, hence my win record is like 90%.
And the games are getting SO FREAKIN HARD. I almost want to record some of my games cus I have suffered some legendary ass kickings from being dealt terrible hands to the computer AI just never making a wrong move. But then right before I lose I just exit out so I get the last laugh.
@ Sean. I have Win 7 but when I exit out without saving, it still counts as a loss. How do you manage that?
I'm still floundering around like I was over two years ago. Nothing has changed except I've been having fun trying some of the techniques posted as comments here (my favorite is just try to shoot the moon whenever possible; it seems to throw the Bots off).
I don't really care if I lose now. If, after a time, I feel the computer has been unduly "cheating", I just reset the stats.
I've been convinced for years that it cheats. Recently I tracked how often I was (a) dealt the queen or (b) passed the queen on the first hand. Can't recall the exact numbers at the moment, but it was WAY past random chance! And on hands where I was not dealt or passed the queen, I was passed the ace or king of spades (or both). It is immediately apparent how unreal the game is when you go and play the online version with REAL people. The dealing is much more realistic.
I can attest that Bill Gates cheats at HEARTS. MSHearts, that is. At the risk of sounding braggadocios, I have played this game on 3.1, 3.2, 98, XP and Vista thousands of times; I will "shoot the moon" 5 times to the computer getting a "moon shot" one time. I consistently win the game over the computer, in spite of the cheating built into the game. I became so angry at this last game I played, I had to come on line and make my statement, as in this game I was handed off the black queen 4 times in a row, taking it each time with a 5 or less. (Now this kind of hand can happen in real life, but certainly not most of the time. And, in Vista, if you watch, the black queen will initially be dealt to your left, probably 8 out of 12 times. The only time this game (Mr. Gates' game--he's in charge of this whole thing and is responsible for what his employees do) does not cheat, is when you play online with real people.
MS Hearts is a waste of time. However, at games.com, when you are playing with bots, you are learning something--how to go after an individual player. The bots will protect one low-scoring player but it builds skill when you go after the one player, that is, in a game where the opponents aren't "trading cards with one another." At games.com, too much bot playing gets boring. I have had 3 moon shots in a row on two occasions and it is common to win 5 - 7 games in a row. So, I suggest playing the bots for skill building but it's a whole different game when you play with people.
-- RoloCole
Oh, and the courteous way to leave a game is to click on "Exit Game." You leave immediately instead of holding everyone up for 30 or 60 seconds.
-- RoloCole
I think I'd rather have a dental procedure than play Windows Hearts. It's a total waste of time.
It's sort of like Charlie Brown and Lucy holding the football. What really is there to prove by playing along?
If you are on Facebook, within Facebook, search on Rolo Cole where I've posted a few shots including my strangest MS Hearts game ever.
Feel free to comment on anything about Hearts.
If you want to share photos, just tag Rolo Cole in each of your photos.
Since the deals aren't random deals as in a real-life game, the game can stick you with crap cards over and over again. For example, ever notice how often you are dealt the Two of Clubs, how often you are having to contend with the Queen, King and/or Ace of Spades, how often the 2,3,4,5 of Hearts are evenly distributed, how often you are passed the Q,K,A of Spades all together, how often East controls the play, particularly when you are trying to avoid the Queen of Spades, and, likewise, how often West has the Queen of Spades when you're forced to play the King or Ace ahead of it, etc., etc., etc.
What's the point really?
I too tried to post a reference to this blog over at wiki and it was deleted without question.
Hmmmmm....
Guess MS has some pull over there at wiki too.
Has anyone noticed that if at any time during the came the human player falls behind, another computer player will commit hari-kari and run up his score so as to end the game before you can lay points on the leader? Just my long term observation.
Yes, that's another one of the game's rigged ways of making you (the human player) lose. In general, everyone is playing against you only. Counting the rigged deals, that makes a "fourth player", i.e., the dealer, who is also playing against you.
This game can't be thought of as an actual game of hearts. It is simply a rigged computer game whereby you must figure out alternative strategies to try to outfox the "normal", i.e., expected play of the cards. If you can do that with some regularity, then you should be able to increase your winning percentage.
Watch the scoring results in games you play and watch the frequency at which the 0-0 or 0-1 rounds occur. By 0-0 and 0-1 round I mean the hands that end up with basically only two players getting points. You'll see this increase as the game goes on and particularly when you are in the lead. It's how the game "stacks" points onto certain players with deals that have a high probability of being played out with a certain (known)outcome. Your job is to try to throw a monkey wrench into this "normal" flow of play. It can't always be avoided though, as certain deals are just total fixes against you.
well us humans can cheat too. if one exits you can choose to save or not to save on exiting. and by doing so it permits one to not save if one doesn't like the way the game is going. thus it permits one to memorize the game play since at that point the card layout is fixed. thus the human can cheat...
you can thus get a high percentage... or at least i can...
and if you can't figure that strategy out, you're worse off than the bot.
MS Hearts = Lame Game
Also, note that the cards you're dealt in all suits usually are like the seven and up. This doesn't hold true for the first few hands, but as the game progresses you'll notice this "strategy" used over and over again, particularly if you're position is leading.
I have not noticed any perceptible cheating, but most Hearts game robots do not play like actual players. In many instances a player will continue to shoot the moon even after loosing a point to another player. Who in their right mind would do this? I have seen this in all the different Hearts programs I have tried. Makes me only want to play against real people. Does anybody know of an unflawed Hearts robot?
Playing Windows Hearts is like playing Blackjack at a table with a crooked dealer. Why would anyone want to?
The game is fixed in so many ways, all of which are blatantly obvious.
Most people quickly find this out after playing it for a little while and then just usually forget about it. And yet, MS keeps throwing this crap out there with every new version of Windows. Whoopee!
Hey! Glad I found this. I am currently deployed to Iraq and thought I'd try the ol' 1000-games of hearts and see what happens. I am just under 400 games and winning at just under 55%. (I've kept track and lost another 17% by 13 points or fewer--damn queen of spades!).
I don't think the game cheats so much as it doesn't care about strategy. What really gets me is that one player will toss the queen to anyone and not hold out for that special person in the lead.
And while this blog is way too long to read . . . I, too have encountered quite a few of the weird things.
It's passing the time, that's for sure!
This game is a waste of time. Period. The deals are all rigged to produce a statistically known point distribution and have nothing to do with the real world and how good of a Hearts player you are.
One suggestion for those who enjoy playing this game anyway: Keep clearing your stats and keep track of it outside of the program.
Watch out for the 25-1-0-0 hands. These are total setups against you and typically happen when the "dealer" loads your hand with most of the Spades. When you realize the setup and attempt to shoot the moon instead, you'll typically find that the trick whereby hearts is broken is taken by one of the bots and they just happen to have the one Spade lower than yours to give control right back to you on the very next trick. Thus, you'll end up stuck with the Queen while the other players unload their hearts on you. In the end, you'll end up with 25 points instead of shooting the moon. The game uses this trap fairly often so watch out for it.
The game certainly does cheat at times. You have to watch carefully but if you do, you will eventually catch one of the bots not following suit properly. It's subtle as it doesn't always involve hearts and frequently the "misplayed" card will come out on the very last trick.
Wow. This thread has been going on for almost three years. Clear proof that you humans have way too much time on your hands.
MS Heart west bot (shifty to you)
Fascinating reading, my favourite hand is West leads 3C, North plays the 13point QS, East follows with the 4C and you guessed it . . your club holding is the 6, 10 Q.
Seen this to many times for it to be random - but still play 2 or 3 ganes per day
Dave
I can't tell you how many times I (and my Father, who also plays) has taken the QS with the 4D!
This thread is a nice diversion if not a bit repetitious. The frustration is palpable, oozing. I'm still running XP and have no desire to switch to Vista etc., it would surely mark the end of MS Hearts for me. I have played for years, not much of late, but I do remember stretches of many 4 moon shutout games on my part, maybe 13 consecutive moon hands. Obviously there is luck involved, but I think playing laid back is very helpful- choosing the proper time to play aggressively has it's benefits. I am adept re statistics and math, probably a plus. I don't now or never did play a whole lot of MS Hearts, but it is curious to me still.
Just wondering... (and no I have not opted to display the "open hand" option discussed here) what exactly is the significance of the white dots (or diamonds?) next to the hands of the opposing players on the 3 passing hands? Though it's obvious to me that it marks some distribution of suits... it does not seem to be so clear cut, definitive, above-board. Alas, that comment may be in tune with much that has been written here- it's been a pleasure.
"The heart is forever making the head it's fool".
I get to 60% regularly (I'm at 48 now) and then I pass the queen and get the ace and the king of spades back. Then the queen is lead! The computer knows I only have the ace-king. FYI you can reset the score back to zero any time you want from the F4 key.
Ever notice how often you get the 2 of Clubs together with the Ace of Clubs?
Or, how often the 2, 3, 4 and 5 of Hearts are evenly distributed?
There's some "amazing" odds for you!
I don't know about outright cheating, but this game certainly gets old fast.
All you're ever doing is defending against the Q of S, while the two patsy bot players protect the third prima donna bot.
Where's the fun in that?
I've played over 200 games, and the best I can get is winning 53%. I sleep the computer between each game. I'm comfortable with 53%, but it I'd like to win more. Before shutting down or putting it to sleep between games I rarely went over 38%. So, there's an option.
Try this: Hold the queen of spades until you can throw it on the prima donna position (whenever possible). Then watch what happens to you in the next couple of games, particularly if your position is close in score to the prima donna's score. You'll likely end up with a bunch of points right away, perhaps even with one of the dreaded 25-1-0-0 rounds.
That's just another one of the ploys in this rigged game's back of tricks.
I can get win up to 53% of the games when playing Hearts on Vista, but never any more than that. This is after 200 games. The only way to do it is to never play games without sleeping the computer between them. I'm happy with 53%.
QUESTION:
Computer Hearts games have a computed score for each game? How is a computed score computed?
I have played MS Hearts for years and have wondered if this was going on, but chalked it up to me just not being attentive. However, recently I have encountered at least twice I know the game was flawed. I just completed a game where I was about to Shoot The Moon by using a hand of nine diamonds to draw out the hearts. I was holding the queen of spades for the final play. The ace of hearts was the only card I did not have, but when I played the queen the hand went to north with the ace of hearts. A similar game happened about a month ago. I agree with all that has been said here about the percentages although I never really noticed it until I read it here, but after reading about it realized I have never gotten above 28% either and I have played many, many games over the years. Also I will end up with the queen of spades on each deal approximately 80% of the time.
Yes, it does indeed.
You have to watch carefully, but the bots protecting the favorable position don't always follow suit accordingly.
While I agree with the people who are calling you an idiot because I can maintain a much better win/loss ratio than your 38%, I also just had proof of the computer cheating. We had been fishing for SPADES. The COMPUTER player with the QUEEN threw the queen out when all I had was the ACE. However, it wasn't the type of slam you would normally take in that situation. The COMPUTER player who had the QUEEN and I were not the only players holding SPADES. BOTH other computer players had at least 1 spade (a 6 and a 9) and I ended up taking the QUEEN with my ACE. This means there's no easy explanation such as card counting and it proves that THE COMPUTER CHEATS!
I've never understood why people play this game on the computer since the deals are so blatantly rigged.
Come on MS. Quit putting this crap out with every "new" version of Windows.
This game is nothing like the real card game of Hearts, unless you're used to playing with a crooked dealer who stacks the cards.
The poster above is dead right. We did a class project in my statistics class whereby we ran thousands of games of Windows Hearts. The game is not realistic at all. For example, the incidence of the South position receiving the Two of Clubs, particularly on the no-pass hand, was multiple deviations away from the statistical norm. There were many other examples of such unrealistic outcomes.
The game is totally fixed.
The game does cheat. Watch carefully. During the last few tricks, you'll see hearts and/or spades come out from one of the bot players that didn't throw them when they had to.
The only two true "cheats" I've noticed is the computer hands occasionally renege (I recently played a hand where I held a well-protected QS. West led at me several times, with the last two leads being the only other spade played. I survived the onslaught only to have East lead a spade at me later in the hand and force me to eat the queen.)The other "cheat"
is the computer hands can and do lead hearts before they are broken and I'm never allowed to.
The truly frustrating aspect is the ridiculous statistical anomalies of the deals. If I have the 5 of hearts, over 10% of the time the 2, 3, 4 will be evenly distubuted guaranteeing me 4 points. I call this the "cutesy play" Another version of this is the "mini-cutesy" where I have the 4 of hearts only to find 2,3,and
void. Then there the "double-cutesy" where I hold the 5 and 9 of hearts and end up with 8 points. I've had the "double-cutesy" pulled on me in back-to-back hands on several occasions. What are the odds of that?
I kept track of a few stats for over 100 games. I was dealt the 2H 9% of the time, the 3H 13%, the 4H 14%, the 5H 26%, the JH 33%, the QH 45%, the KH 46%, the AH 41%.
In "hold-em" hands. I was dealt the QS 41% of the time and with two or less protectors nearly 85% of the time I was dealt the queen.
The computer hand to my right was dealt the Ace of clubs 39% of the time, which is huge when you have crap hands and are trying to wiggle out of them.
The game also "peeks" in your hand. I've played numerous hands where I managed to void my hand of diamonds, only to see diamonds NEVER led to allow me to dump some junk. Also, if I hold a lone KH, the other hand can hold 2S,2D,3C, and QH and I guarantee you it'll lead QH. Just a lucky "hunch" I guess.
Here's a few more computer cheats in hearts. The "miraculous comeback". Human leads all three bots by 20+ points. Bot with the lowest score shoots the moon, busting highest bot, beating human by a couple of points. This happens about once every ten games.
The "disappearing card". I was trying to dump points on the low bot to my left. I passed it the deuce of clubs and ace of spades. I held the ace of clubs and jack, ten, nine of spades. I took trick one and attempted to lead my spades thru the ace to catch the queen. My first lead drew a low spade from the bot and then hearts on the next two leads. WHERE IN THE HELL DID THE ACE GO ? I never saw it played that hand.
I hold about a 60% winning average. The game 'does' target me from time to time, but I rarely have my opponents shoot the moon on me. When it does happen, it's generally because I'm not paying close enough attention. I rarely EVER pass spades or hearts to anyone, and I always try to void in a suit.(Because the game ALWAYS tries to give even distribution.) Pass hearts, get hearts, pass spades, especially the Queen, get ready to get the Queen back. Pass clubs and diamonds, and watch your percentage go up. I don't particularly play good 'Spades' on the computer, I play to defeat the computer, and make plays I'm certain it doesn't contemplate. Were I to play in a real game with people, I would be forced to play entirely different. I find enjoyment out of targeting a particular person, and pulling it off. Have fun.
I'm going to try to find a different version of hearts. Love playing hearts but am sick to death of constantly getting screwed over time after time after time. Seems like every "no pass" hand (especially if it's a close game or I'm trying to catch up) I either get dealt ace, king, or queen of spades with one or no defenders and within three leads have thirteen points or else I get dealt two or three high hearts and end up with ten or more points that way. You're a real genius, Mr. Programmer.
I think the fatal flaw with the MS hearts program is the individual hands can't plot or strategize to "win" the game. They don't go after the low score or hold points back and try to "load up' on the low man. I can have the high score, hold the queen of spades, and the only other hand with spades will keep leading at me to make me eat it. In a "real" game, you wouldn't lead spades at the high score like that, but instead switch suits hoping to get the low man in a position where the queen could be unloaded on him.
In my opinion, the game compensates for this deficiency by using ridiculous card distributions to keep the only "thinking" player at a disadvantage.
There is no question that it cheats with the deal. How many times can I get 2 or 3 spades in a row? But the reason, this is more interesting. It is certainly a poor programmer who cannot come up with algorithms. So there were compelled to save face by cheating.
The lengths the game goes to protecting yhe "chosen one" is almost comical, if it weren't so pathetic..
I agree - I've seen the "drone bots" dive in front of more bullets protecting the "chosen one" bot more than the Secret Service. If you lead a low spade and happen to catch the "chosen one" with a lone Queen, one of the drones will just happen to have a lone king of spades and take the trick. AMAZING !!!
I thought it was just me until I found this thread. I've noticed a lot of the things others have mentioned. The card distributons on the deals are odds-defying ludicrous. I don't know what the statistical odds of me having the five of hearts and catching four points with it are, but I'm thinking once every ten or twelve deals is NOT close to realistic. Incredible how often it happens on first deal of a game, too.
Then there is the near impossibility of improving your hand by passing the queen of spades (you will just get the king or ace, or both passed to you). Passing some loner high hearts just results in having even higher ones passed back.
About the worst thing you can do is win a game or two. It's almost a guarantee you will have 30 points within the first two or three hands of the nest game. If you get thirty points behind the preordained winner, you may as well save time and start a new game. If you do start catching up, you WILL be dealt singleton spade queen or ten, jack. queen of hearts to ensure a double-figure point jump in your score.
If I'm the low man, I would expect the players to try to target me for points, but not by stacking the deal.
Very poor game program.
Just got hosed on another game. Got the "cutesy play" (5,4,3,2 of hearts) pulled on me three times (in 11 hands) didn't take the queen once, ended up with 68 points (all hearts) lost by 20. Magnificent job micrososft programmer. You must be very proud of your efforts on this design.
If I got cheated like this in a real game, someone would be on their way home with cards occasionally falling out of their underwear.
If you are new to the MS Hearts game, here are a few of the "rules" you need to be aware of.
* You will be dealt the 5 of hearts probably at least once a game. The other three hands will hold 2,3,4 of hearts, ensuring you of at least 4 points that hand.
* In "no pass" hands, you will be dealt the queen of spades with 0,1, or 2 defenders approx. 50% of the time (and spades WILL be led)
* If you are NOT holding the spade queen, it will be in the hand directly to your left most of the time.(and you'll probably hold the ace or king)
* The hand directly to your right will lead most of the time, forcing you to burn your low cards early in the hand or chance running a high card thru the gauntlet.
* You will be dealt the 8 thru K of hearts about three times to one over the 2 thru 6 of hearts.
* One of the computer hands will be "chosen" to have a score lower than yours and will be nearly impossible to saddle with points. (If you're a fairly competent player, watch how many times you'll see a score like YOU-32. BOT A-88, BOT B-26, BOT C-91)
* You will consstantly wonder how tough it would be to design a true "random" deal program.
Enjoy - and remember -I told you so
I've to the point where I don't even care about win percentage (just erase every week or so) If I'm getting hosed in a game, I just bail on it. I've dumped games after the first hand if the computer pulls some BS move. Seldom continue a game after taking four points with the five of hearts (for like the millionth time).
If you want to "practice" for MS hearts, get three buddies to come over. Have all YOUR cards dealt face up and let them huddle up and pass cards among themselves.
Two Microsoft Hearts classics in my last three games today.
Game 1 - Led "Golden Boy" 23 to 30 with other two bots in the 90's. Got dealt a hand with mostly low cards, no hearts. Got passed K,Q of hearts, took 8 points, lost by a point to "Golden Boy".
Got lucky and won game 2.
Game 3 - First hand, dealt lone QS, passed it to my left, got passed spade ace. Bot to my right has club ace (of course) leads spade, I end up with 21 points. Aborted game, wrote this and going to watch T.V
MS programmer - you suck !
I can tell you without a doubt that it cheats. I have tracked for example the number of times Hearts deals the Queen of Spades to you or it gets passed to you on the first round and the percentage of getting the Queen is way beyond chance or the randomness of dealing 52 cards. However, the best proof is that I am able to watch all hands as the game proceeds and have actually seen the game play a card that is illegal or out of the hand initially. The program then makes adjustments to hands and guess when you get the Queen..the next hand.
Also, if you watch closely, the game actually designates the probable winner in the first two hands. If you get a bad hand or get the Queen at the start, chances are you ain't the one. Watch closely as you play and you will begin to see the pattern of who will win.
Rick, Tennessee
A lot of great posts. It doesn't take long to realize that MS Hearts is a BS game.
Thanks for posting this subject on your blog.
I just played 100 games of MS Hearts in XP, winning 64 of them. I didn't notice any computer irregularities or cheating. Strategies that work against MS Hearts, but not necessarily against human players are:
1) Get rid of all your clubs if possible so that you can dump the ace or king of spades on the first trick.
2) Only pass hearts if you have isolated medium or high ones.
3) Shoot the moon often; I shot the moon 68 times in the 100 games, the three computer players only did it 20 times altogether. The computer will not win a heart trick unless forced to, so if want to shoot the moon and you have AKQ987654 of hearts and computer has JT32 in one hand, play the ace and then the 9. Computer will play the 2 on the 9!
You can't compare the Vista version with the XP version. The deals in the former are much more rigged against you than in the latter.
Again, watch carefully and you'll see that the bots don't always follow the rules of the game.
Maybe a different version is fairer. 100 games is a fairly small sample. Wait until you've played 500 or 1000. When you lose 3, 4, or 5 games in a row, it's tough to get enough wins in a row to stay at 60%. especially during strecthes where you swear you're being dealt from a Pinochle deck.
LOL. Pinochle deck. I like that.
To anyone that still doesn't believe this game is so rigged against your position, try this little experiment.
Try passing your spades every pass round, regardless of what the spades are. I know that this is not a viable strategy in this fake game or the real game for that matter. Nonetheless, it's still a fun learning experience.
I guarantee you'll be out in no more than half a dozen rounds or so. The point here is to see how rigged the deals/passes are. You'll keep getting stuck with some combination of the A,K,Q of spades.
Also, let's not forget the infamous 2 of clubs. I just played a game wherein I received the 2 of clubs 8 times in a game of 12 rounds. Of those, 3 times were on the no-pass round (of course), and the deuce was dealt in conjunction with the Ace of clubs on 5 of these 8 "deals".
I don't know what triggers it, win percentage, or something else, but when the computer gets in one of it's "moods", you WILL NOT win. Whether it's getting hosed on the last hand or getting stuck early and basically being out of the game after three or four hands, you will lose 2,3,or 4 games in a row. You will wonder how you ever won a game and if you'll ever win again.
You will take the queen of spades on the 2nd trick with the 4 of diamonds (three times in one game for me recently) Pay attention to how many times something OTHER than a spade is led on the second trick if YOU hold the queen. It's about as rare as bagging a three-legged albino moose in Arkansas.
You will score 4 hearts with the 5, or 6 hearts with the 4 & 7. You will note that the suit led is nearly always something you hold. Voiding your hand of a suit is futile because that suit won't be led. Count the number of hands you end up with no heart lower than the 8 in your hand.
Only ray of hope is it seems that four games is usually the "can't win" limit. You can lose more, but it's usually sloppy play 'cuz you're PO'd or you're so gun-shy after eating the queen so many times, you play to never take a trick, which, of course leads to taking tricks late in the hand because you ducked so many early tricks.
I know exactly what you're talking about. It's like one of those TV poker shows where they're showing highlights of "bad beats" - except it's me, over and over again.
In other words, the game is so rigged it's not really worth playing at all.
I guess I'll stick to playing games that are actually interesting.
Think about it MS.
Exactly. If a game can't have truly random deals regardless of the score or who won the last game, IT IS RIGGED.
Why play a game wherein you're the only player that is forced to play by the actual rules of the game? (That's a rhetorical question actually.)
On the Vista version, I've lost track of the number of times I've caught the game cheating at the rules.
I seldom play it any longer, usually just when I'm killing some time.
In one of my hs classes we had a project that involved this game. We tracked the cards dealt as well as how they were played. We were stunned to see that the game does indeed not follow the rules.
I keep score and to date I have won 31 time with the ultimate score of 0-104-104-104, taking all 26 points on all 4 hands. Many, many times I have received zero and, at present, I am at 63% wins, although it is getting more and more difficult to get the zero scores and and almost impossible to get the ultimate, although I did get that score on 12-30-10 and 1-12-11. As others have said, the computer get hands dealt where it can take 26 points because I can't play anything to capture what that position plays. I started keeping score in June 1997 and the first time of listing other than zero was in Feb. 05 when I took 26 points 3 time and an opponent took 26 on 1 hand, this happened again in May and Aug of 05. I had one zero hand against me in Apr. 99, others in Jan 02 and in Aug, 08.
In 08 I started logging scores of 1 to 5, then later, since the dealing was obviously becoming mor difficult against the human player, I began logging everything 10 ans under except when other higher score winning games followed the low count win, until I lost a game. I am not anonymous. I am L.B. Strawn, poetman99@aol.com
Here is a poem I wrote about playin hearts on a computer. I intended to post it with my first entry but forgot. Well here it is:
HEARTS
Mary and I play the game of Hearts
With a couple named Adam And Eve.
I get so mad I could throw some darts
Because they cause a terrible peeve.
Some times they give me the Queen of Spades
Ninety nine time out of eleven,
Causing me to throw some escapades
That could keep me out of heaven.
Of course it’s a game of cutthroat,
Ev’ryone playing for their own score.
I can affirm, the chance not remote,
That Mary, my wife, often gets sore.
This is a game where the lowest score wins,
And I win at least seven times out of eight.
This causes a lot of guffaws and grins,
Ending up with me feeling great.
And many times I have won with zero,
Causing them to create a terrible scene.
One might say that I’m not their hero,
Causing their blush to be envious green.
One time Eve was very distraught,
“Where are the cards? I was supposed to add ‘em”.
I spoke very glibly so as not to get caught,
“Didn’t you know?” “Adam had ‘em, Madam!”
This is all electronic, you understand!,
I just imagine what they’re saying,
So I guess I’m throwing underhand----
I’m the only one alive who is playing!!!!
By L. B. Strawn
August 1, 1999
Try this. Open the game and don't play it. Just keep selecting a new game. Watch how often your position is dealt the A,K,Q of spades as well as high hearts.
This "game" is a joke in the programming world.
Agreed.
Ever notice how often when you're holding the Q of S but don't have the A or K that the play will go as follows. East will take the 2 of C trick (of course) and then lead with a spade. This allows North to discard his A or K. Then North will lead with another spade, either forcing you to play your Q or, if you're able to escape one more time, allowing West to play his A or K. And you can't just play your Q since both players also hold another S to avoid taking the Q.
Sometimes I think this predetermined set comes up at least once every game. It definitely is one of the game's most commonly used set-up.
A lot of great observations. I'll add my two cents' worth.
A few years ago, my then nine-year-old daughter asked me this: Why play a card game that doesn't deal the cards honestly? She said that would just be stupid.
I think she nailed it.
Beyond the obviously rigged deals, at times the game blatantly cheats at the rules. It's actually comical sometimes....like the programmers of the game are somehow pulling one over on you. Please.
Watch the last card discarded and you'll see what I mean. All of a sudden a heart or spade will get played out of order. This is when it usually happens....I guess so you won't notice while being distracted by the end-of-round scoring update.
Play the game online or with friends in a real room, with real cards...where your fellow players don't cheat at the game.
This Windows game is pretty pathetic.
This blog tickles me. I play win 7 hearts. At 400 games i hit 53%. then the roof caved in. I just cant win anymore. I keep resetting stats. The pc cheats, ever notice on a no pass hand you always get the 2 clubs? but never high spades. The other hands, you get hosed. Pass hearts, get hearts, pass big spades and here comes the queen. And I'm the only guy who can stop a run. The other punks won't.
I saw a cheat where you can program the game so you can see all the other cards. Only it was for Vista, not Win 7. I'd sure love a chance to cheat back at those bastids. Love these posts. Especially the guy who says to practice get 3 of your friends to play and huddle behind your back. lol
That "cheat" you mention only works on the XP version I believe.
Yes, the 2 of Clubs thing is one of the game's most commonly used ways of rigging the deal against you. I've had games wherein I received the 2 of Clubs every single one of the no-pass hands without fail. It's one of the games most reliable ways of setting you up to take points.
I don't know why i keep playing this game. What's wrong with me?? Right now I'm practicing shooting the moon. Easier to do on the first hand it seems. Pass a little heart and you will usually be rewarded with some help lol
We came across this blog one day at school while looking some junk up. Just for laughs, we took an informal poll of about 60 kids to see 1. does anyone play this game and 2. if they did, what did they think about it.
The overwhelming majority of kids laughed at us (to put it politely) when we brought the subject up. Less than 4% play the game. Of those that did, the vast majority said it was a so-so game, and none said they would miss it if it wasn't included with Windows.
I guess that's why ms gives it away; no one would actually pay for such a crappy game. Hehe.
You took a poll from kids raised on Call of Duty? I'm going tomorrow to play hearts with my family.
Is there a computer expert out there who can help me PERMANENTLY DELETE the 5,4,3,2 of hearts deal? If I NEVER see those four cards in the middle of the table (with the 5 being mine, of course) it will be way too soon. I don't know what kind of programing glitch causes that particular distribution to show up so often, but it drives me crazy. I don't know how many games I've lost because of the four points (at least)taken with that play. I say "at least" because if the bot that would have had to take the trick isthe "winner", that is an eight point swing every time it happens.
Ya, how many times I've eaten the Q with the 4 of diamonds. You have to think the programmer of that game is one sick puppy. He could have made a really good game.
I just completed 200 games. I kept track of some statistics while I was playing. I'll just name a few:
1. dealt or passed the A,K,Q of Spades (one or more) 84% of the time
2. dealt or passed the 2 of Clubs an amazing 41% of the time, with an even more amazing 80% of these being on no pass hands
3. East took the first trick over 60% of the time
There's some BS odds for you!
It's an absolute blatant CHEAT!!!
I have observed the game by playing but only paying attention to the scores of the other hands. This removes the "human element" and shows up the scoring patterns of the computer.
Computer hands often get runs of bad cards for one particular hand, not always to promote a win of another of the computer's hands.
As other posters have noted, it's a good way of ensuring one computer hand is low, so increasing the likelihood of a win for the computer.
On the other hand, if I get a lead over all 3 computer hands and maintain it, they will all track each other's scores, keeping them even, so taking a longer time to go out and increasing the chances that I might run into some "bad luck" before a computer hand goes over 100.
Conversely, I have seen the computer win with a score as low as 3, and often under 10.
Curiously, a number of times I have seen the computer throw the SQ on a low heart of mine when they were out of hearts but still held the SA. I have also had the SQ not played by the computer on a lead of the SK.
The computer plays "straight" and so it can be easy to work out what hands hold through leads. Humans are much more "foxy".
It's kind of fun getting round the "cheats" though.
Thanks to the guy who posted the stats on ending up with high spades. Nice to see people with the same experience as me. Ever notice that the no-pass hands are usually good? Seldom dirty. How about how many times you take an early trick leading the 5 of hearts. Come on.
The deals are NOT random. Passes are coordinated (watch how many hands the suits are bunched in one hand. You can't get out of the lead with a diamond because east has all the other diamonds. You can't get out of the lead with hearts because west has all the hearts. And, of course north has a fist full of spades to force your queen.) Add them up it spells C-H-E-A-T-E-R. Shameful gmae programming.
Anybody have any theories why they would make a game like this? Would it just be too hard to make a game more realistic? Wouldn't real people try to short suit themselves and pass high spades if they didn't have 3 little protectors? Wouldn't real people stop somebody from running them all? Ever see a bot do that? Make the game more random with common sense strategies.
Further to my previous post, I offer an example of game scores:
S W N E
8 0 17 1
8 0 23 21
14 6 36 22
15 6 61 22
15 16 62 37
16 16 69 55
16 16 93 57
All going well so far, but from the computer's perspective the pesky player is doing rather well.
16 41 93 84
Whoops - computer is thinking of moving all defenders up together.
42 67 93 84
That's better - the player nearly ready to go out has shot the moon.
50 67 97 98
And up goes the (previously) second worst player, giving more breathing space. But what to do with the "real" player?
76 67 123 124
Easy, shoot the moon again with the right player - who grabbed the lead on the third trick and never let go.
I would love to stick the programmer of MS Hearts in a time machine, send him back to the 1800's, and plop him in the middle of a card game with Doc Holiday and Wild Bill. Let's see him tell those guys "Sorry, but you've lost this game". KABOOM!!!
Regarding the odds I posted previously...
I forgot to say that I also kept track as to where the Queen of Spades was, that is, when it wasn't in your hand. Guess what....seven out of ten times that Queen was in the West hand. Surprised? I doubt it.
Also, guess what two cards you're least likely to ever hold. That's right...the 2 and 3 of Hearts.
Come on programmers...is this really the best you have to offer? Hehe.
fmdave: I actually have pulled off a "perfect game" in Hearts, a number of years ago, but I think it might have been four times shooting the moon and one round without taking any points somewhere in between them all.
I don't think you can push everyone to 125 and still have 0, though.
Again, watch the discards on the last couple of tricks. You'll see some hearts come out from one of the bots that were not thrown earlier when they needed to be.
The game does actually resort to outright cheating at times.
Great blog on hearts.
You know, sometimes hands are so rigged against you that no matter what you do, you can't push points to the "chosen one". The cards are all set up so no matter what is played, that prima donna position will not take any of the tricks containing points.
I win about 60% of the time and that is over as many as 3000 games before I will start over. I am convinced the game is rigged.
Haha. This game is so lame from a programmer's point of view. Where's the challenge? At any given time, usually later in the game while the human player "thinks" he still can win, the programmer simply throws out a predetermined "deal" that will inevitably drop the QS on him. Oooooh. That was clever, eh?
And that about sums this game up. The game's basic programming trick is to consistently have the human player defending against the QS, making the game anything but realistic given the way the cards are "dealt".
Totally lame. I'd rather play solitaire given the choice.
I agree with the other posts here. I've caught the game cheating at the rules so many times I don't really bother playing the game any longer (except when killing time, like while waiting for a flight or something like that).
I really haven't noticed "cheating" like playing out of suit, etc. Ya, the program is rigged against you. I play Win 7 hearts, fortunate to skip over the gawd awful vista. XP Hearts doesn't cheat and it is easier to beat but it doesn't keep records. If you want to know the best MS game, it's Freecell. Every game can be won. I play at 89%.
Just thought I'd let y'all know I'm getting revenge for you. I have Task Manager on my desktop with a shortcut to Hearts. If I don't like the way it's going, I start over. I'm playing at 99% and you should see how pissed off the bots are!
Mr. Programer. You are a GENIUS !!! If you want the computer to win, you rig the deal so the human gets dealt the QS with one other spade. Three plays into a hand the human has at least 13 points. Recent game saw this happen four times in ten hands. Three of the four times I was dealt NO spades. Of course I was passed the queen all three times. That's quite a long shot, being dealt void in a particular suit 30%of the time AND the player passing to you having the QS each time.
Another recent game I got the programer's signature ploy - the one that will probably get him into the Hall of Fame- the "cutesy play" three times in nine hands. The "cutesy" is where the human has the five of hearts and collects four points with it. Just being dealt the 5H 33% of the time is defying the odds a little bit, but to have the 2, 3, 4 in each of the other hands also, that can only be accomplished by a truly "genius" program. Walk proud.
Why does this BS program even try to create the illusion of playing a "game"? Just make sure the human has a lone QS, a bunch of high cards (but also a couple of low ones to sabotage any runs) and just pummel you in 5 or 6 hands EVERY game. They could even have a litle cyber-monkey or something come out and do a little "in your face" victory dance after each game
Hehe. I like that comment about the "in your face" victory dance. That was pretty funny.
Try this. Start a game and then pass your cards left (to West) as you would normally do so, but don't start actually playing the game. Just keep starting a new game over and over again. Watch the Spades you are given to start and then what is passed to you. I don't think you'll be surprised, but you'll probably be amused by how often the A,K,Q (in some combination) of Spades are involved almost every time.
When I actually play the Windows game, I never pass the Queen of Spades to West. You will inevitably be passed the King or Ace or both in return, something like 80 to 90% of the time.
The West position is the game's favorite resting spot for the Queen of Spades. With East taking the first trick with some amazing regularity, you'll be caught trying to defend against that passed Queen almost every time.
Hi Anonymous one, two, or however many have that name. I believe that you are letting the game get to you.
It is true that the dealer is getting harder and harder on the human position. But sometime what might appear to be a reckless approach can end up taking 26 points.
I have just finished 25 games and lost only one and neither won nor lost 4. That means I won 20 out of 25 games. I can take 26 points many times with hand you wouldn't think would stand a chance, by playing in a way that would appear to the machine that I don't know what I'm doing. Try it, you might like it. my wins are at 63%.
L.B. Strawn
Ya know, yes, MS Hearts is stacked against you. But there is still some fun to have with it. Learn its tendencies. Much if that is posted here. So how about some threads with tips:
Bots will seldom beat your first heart lead. This is handy if you are planning to shoot.
You can see the cards sticking up before the pass and get an idea how many different suits you will get.
Seems bots will often give you one chance to take an early heart trick before they shoot. Take 4 for the team.
Pass clubs, diamonds are easier to sluff.
Wow, glad I found this ongoing discussion. I've long thought that this game was crap.
I tried what the poster above said about starting a new game over and over.
When I did this, I went for 27 deals in a row before I managed to get a hand without the A,K, or Q of spades.
What a joke!
There are two basic "strategies" of the MS game that just infuriate me (accomplished by the many tactics listed in this thread.)
The "NO CHANCE IN HELL"
This "strategy" basically just hammers you with points early and often. Usually with you being dealt or passed "near naked" big spades or high, mid-level hearts (8 thru queen). About 5 or 6 hands into this game, you will have 50 or more points and the "chosen one" will still be in single digits. This is fairly common after you've won a game or two.
The "MIRACLE FINISH"
This "strategy" allows you to think you might win. Two of the bots will be near busting (80's or 90's) while the "chosen one" will kind of hang around, maybe ten to twenty points behind. Then, at the last minute, you'll be forced to take enough points to pass the "chosen one" while one of the other bots hits 100.
Ever notice how the lead ends up with the bot who has just enough spades to flush the queen in your hand?
Has this happened to you? Your in second place and planning on overtaking for the win. Bot 3 shoots because you aren't paying attention and puts bot 4 over 100. You finish second. I'll tell ya, it's YOUR responsibility to stop a run, nobody else will, (unless it's you shooting) then they get you on the last trick.
I actually believe most of MS games they supply, cheat. The most obvious one is Minesweeper, the game actually changes the board at least once after you start. It's easy to see how. Pick a corner to start in, play 10 games starting in that corner, no mine. Now start anywhere else and go second to that corner spot. How many times do you hit a mine? That is illegal in gaming, you can't change the board after the games starts. Heavens yes Hearts cheats, so does Solitaire (Aces should average coming out every 13 cards - the first Ace actually averages at about 14-16, why?), so did Space Cadet.
Tell you what, start a Hearts game, and track what you get rid of. And see what you get back for several hands. Change it around, get rid of high Hearts or Spades, then try low clubs or diamonds. Or try the count trick. Use the Bridge count A-4 K-3 Q-2 J-1. In a typical 'random' shuffle deck you should average 10 points per hand (total 40 divided by 4 hands per game). See if you can maintain a 10 point average. See if you can constantly give away more points than you get. See how many times you can void yourself in a suit and not get that suit back, or how often you get a singleton Spade Queen or King. Difficult to do, exceeding probability.
Why do they do it? Probably to keep you playing. Why is that a culture at Microsoft? Makes you wonder about the rest of their culture if cheating comes so easy to them.
btw, I once started x (100+?) games in a row, just the first hand, and I'm up to being dealt or passed the Q of spades in 8 consecutive hands. 8 consecutive, by discarding certain card combinations. 8 in a row. THAT is cheating. Odds say that 50% of the time the Q should be in a hand that can't possibly pass to me. NOT true at all here.
This game (and I use that term loosely) is a joke from a programming perspective. Note how often the game uses the same card-rigging strategies over and over. It consistently places the QS in the West hand while making sure that you play before it. It uses one-on-one rounds time and time again. By that I mean those rounds where only two players receive almost all the points (the 0-0 and 0-1 hands another poster referred to earlier). I could go on and on with other examples, but I think you get the point.
Thus, the programming that went into the game is overly simple and ultimately it is what makes Windows Hearts a failure in the gaming world.
Great posts! I've got a "Have you ever noticed?" You hold a high heart or two and are void in another suit. That suit WILL NOT be led (even spades) until hearts are broken and hearts have been led into your high cards ensuring you take some points. Once or twice a game is usually enough to keep you from winning. Just another Master Progammer maneuver.
Experienced a wonderful new MS Hearts trick today. I led the 5 of clubs, west played 4 of clubs, north played ace of clubs, east dumped queen of spades.....trick slid to my poition, I had 13 points and was still in the lead.
Tip: The game is rigged but you can still have fun with it.
Split hearts early if you can. That could keep a bot from running them. Notice that once a bot starts the shoot, he gets it.
I can't speak for versions other than the Vista one, but, yes, the game does actually cheat.
I'm not talking about the rigged "dealing". That's a given.
The game's bots don't always follow the rules of the game. Watch carefully and you'll see that at times one of the bots will actually hold back and not follow suit (usually hearts) in order to protect the "chosen one". This is done either to force the remaining points on you or at least position the play so that the remaining points can be forced on you.
You'll be amazed when you actually catch the game in the act....like...WOW, this game actually resorts to cheating!
I think it pulls this little stunt most often when you're in a neck-to-neck race to the finish with the chosen one.
Watch carefully and you'll see this happening before your very eyes.
I always thought this was just my imagination, but I guess others have had the same suspicion about this game cheating.
There's some great information contained in this blog. I'm glad I stumbled on it.
Did you ever notice that the game will finally give some points to the "preselected winner" on the final trick of the game when that hand is in no danger of giving up the winning spot even with the points added on? All throughout the game, that postion is protected over and over again, and you can't throw points his way no matter what you do. But, then, miraculously, on that final trick when one of the other positions is forced out, the game decides to drop a few token points on the winning hand. Did the programmers really think that would make the game look any more legit (which it clearly is not)?
I just don't understand the purpose of the rigged hands and games. It's not that complicated, just program random deals.
Send your most advanced computer, your most brilliant programmers, even profeessional card players. But, with one stipulation, I get to deal...in secret. I WILL WIN 100% OF THE TIME! I guarantee it. I wll not even LET you win a game. And we will play for MONEY!
I've kind of wondered about the "purpose", also. What is to be gained by showing some schmuck at a desk with a laptop that you can rig it so that one out of three computer hands finishes a few points ahead of him in a simulated card game? I mean, really?
I'm not an aluminum foil hat wearing conspiracy nut, but it DOES make you wonder about the "randomness" of more important things like lotteries, drug tests at work..........
Well the game is what it is. I wish it was more random and fair. It still has some value learning the tendencies. I wish some or the people who claim they are playing at 60% would post some tips.
I can win at that rate but only if I cheat. That is, use the tip open up the hands for viewing. I just look to see which cards are being passed or who has what and play that way. I've actually won /once/ in 4 hands (0, 104, 104, 104 - shot the moon every time - in Windows XP).
I played a game the other day on Windows7 where I won with 1 point. It is possible but you have to understand what the other hands are trying to do and be different enough to couteract their programming. But I also quit hands the first time I realize I will stuck with the queen. Why waste even more time, when I already am!
And like I said above, makes me wonder about Microsoft's culture where cheating on games is a way of life. How about their other apps? Ya gotta luv em!
Here's another observation about the game's rigged deals...
Ever notice that after you're able to actually shoot the moon, particularly later in the game, the "dealer" loads you up with terrible hands for awhile? It's like...well, don't get your hopes up....now take that...and that. Your 0 score on the shooting the moon hand is quickly erased.
Pretty funny, eh?
I've never understood why people play this supposed game. It hardly qualifies as a legitimate game for all the reasons stated again and again in this blog. Since the game can plant cards wherever and whenever it wants to make you consistently pick up points (like the Queen in the West position another poster mentioned), winning the game has very little to do with your actual ability at the game of Hearts. The only thing random about the game is which games it will actually allow the human player to win.
Personally, I don't find rigged games that interesting or challenging; I just find them to be sad, sort of like those rigged games in the old carnival allies. At least at this one you can play for free!
You want revenge? Try this. Keep ending process until you shoot on the first hand. Then see what your percentage is when you are spotted 26 LOL, I'm 22 wins one loss
Bots not following suit.
That's cheating any way you look at it.
What really piques me is the many times I have a game like the one I had recently. With far from ideal hands, I managed to be leading 11. 76, 24, 71. Then I was dealt K, Q of spades on a "no pass" hand and took 21 points. Two hands later, the 3 of diamonds was led, folowed by the 2, followed by my 4 and the QS. One of the bots busted and I lost.
I know "real life" games can go like this, but not a the rate they do on this game.
I absolutely agree with last post. When I get in the position you described, I mentally chock up a loss because I know the superior intellect of the programmer will manifest itself and I will be subjugated to my rightful place.
A friend and I ran 400 games. She played and I kept track of the key cards. Whenever the QS was not in our hand, 73% of the time it was played by West.
Obviously, the game is totally fixed.
Just finished a game where score was W 83, N 81, E 91, Me 57. North shoots moon, I lose by 2 points. Hats off to you Programmer. Go tell your momma what a genius you are.
Enjoyed the blog! I kept track of the number of spades dealt to me for 200 hands and found that it was exactly correct. The number of aces, kings, and queens dealt to me or passed to me were correct also if the program is set for it to pass ace/king/queen every time. I find that east always leads spades, one bot will always try to gain points while the other stays flat, and the play is questionable, but I count cards and I don't think that the game cheats. I am at 62% for the past 700 games and am playing it until I can get back to poker after Lent :)
I guess I'll have to agree to disagree with the last post as to the definition of "cheating". I recently went thru a stretch of losing 10 games out of twelve. I finished second each time. One of two scenarios played out in each game. Either the "chosen one" could absolutely not be given points (his score in three of the games was 8, 9, and 17) or else whenever I would get close to being the low score (or maybe even taking a brief lead) I would immediately be dealt a 15 to 22 point hand.
Rigging the deal so one hand has to take points or one hand won't take points is cheating where I come from.
Seems to be two definitions of cheating here. One where the game conspires against you and the other where it doesn't always follow suit. I've never seen the latter form.
If you're playing the Vista version and you haven't seen the game cheat in the latter sense, i.e., not following the rules, then you're not watching carefully enough.
The bots don't always follow suit.
That's cheating by any definition.
Possible you have something wrong with your version? I've played hundreds of games, i would have noticed.
The game is completely bogus.
How often do you get the 2C?
How many hands are you dealt or passed the AS or KS or QS or some combination thereof?
How many times do you get passed the AKQ of Spades all at once? (Ask yourself how many times that has ever happened to you in a real game.)
How many times does the QS sit in West's hand and you play in front of him?
How many times does the 2H, 3H, 4H and 5H get evenly distributed?
How many times do you get mostly high cards late in games in which you're leading or close to the lead?
How often do you see those low hearts and spades late in games?
Like I said....it's totally bogus.
I forgot to add this one...
How many times have you seen a player go like six or seven hands in a row and not pick up a single point, like the "chosen one" frequently does? Now ask yourself how often you've seen that in a real game of Hearts.
It really boils down to probabilities or odds. Tweak the odds by 1% and Las Vegas goes broke in a month (and someone goes to prison). One post mentioned a "bridge count" - jack=1, queen=2, etc. You should average 10. I kept track for 200 hands and my average was 16.8. I was dealt 10 or less points 23% of the hands. That's definitely a tweak of the odds. Not to mention all the "patterned hands" that have been described. And the timing of those hands......
I have seen the bots renege on rare occasion, but they lead hearts before they're broken pretty regularly.
mshearts definitely does not play random.
I did a test recently of the distribution of J Q K A cards over 100 dealt hands. The distribution eventually worked out statistically even, ie on average you should get 4 of those cards each hand.
However, the number of times I had the Q spade, and no means of defending myself was well beyond what should have occurred.
Similarly with the 3 cards I received. Invariably I would receive the Q spades if I discard the K or A spades, well beyond a statistical probability of 1 in 3.
It's also clear the program will often give itself a moonshot, with none of the other players making any attempt to stop it. Unless I try the stop myself, it will get moonshots well beyond what I ever see in 4 real person play.
The "game" also regularly "deals" you the 2C to take away one of your pass cards. It frequently gives you the 2C in combination with the AC also.
The game is blatantly rigged and thus doesn't really qualify as a game of chance at all.
MS knows this well but doesn't really give a crap about this product anyway.
Myself and several coworkers went to a tech conference a few years ago in which some people from Microsoft were there. They admitted that the game is not played fairly and that, yes, it does actually cheat at times.
Of all the crap the game pulls, what infuriates me the most is how many games I "lose" on the last stinking hand!! Time and time again, I get set up to take enough points to pass the "chosen one" while one of patsies busts.
It is nearly impossible to bust one of the patsy bots while you're leading. I've seen them sit on 98 or 99 points for three or four hands until I get hosed & the chosen one wins. Pure BS.
Yup, that's another very common experience for anyone that plays this rigged game. While you're sitting in that leading spot, the game will "deal" out the perfect set of cards for the patsy to avoid getting enough points to bust and end the game. On the other hand, those "deals" will inevitably result in crap hands for yourself whereby it's impossible for you to avoid picking up points. When you pick up enough to give up the lead to the "chosen one", then the game will end by one of those patsies finally going bust. 8-9 out of 10 times you will lose games that develop like this.
I've even seen it a few times whereby the patsy getting ready to bust picks up 0 points for 4 games in a row. Quite frequently you'll see the infamous 0-0-x-x or 0-1-x-x hands for every hand at the end of games like this.
It's a stupid game and it always has been.
Since it can stick you with 13 points just about anytime it wants, and certainly every 4th hand (give you either the K or AS and no others, have East take the 2C trick and stack the QS in West's hand), it really doesn't take much programming effort to make the human player lose again and again.
I'm not impressed.
I was recently at a friend's house and he had manipulated the game so the cards were showing in all the hands. I watched as he played several games. The first thing I noticed was how many times the passes appeared to be choreographed. If west passed three clubs, north would pass three spades, and east would pass three diamonds leading to voids (or near voids) in one suit and long in another in the hands. The pass across nearly always resulted in lopsided suit distributions. This explains how you take the QS with the 4D or how one hand can lead 5 times at your Queen. It also explains a lot of the 0-0-1-25 hands as one hand holds all the cards of one suit and cannot get out of the lead the last 5 or 6 tricks.
I just played the following ridiculous game. These are the actual round-by-round results.
South, West, North, East
1. 0, 0, 22, 4
2. 7, 0, 1, 18
3. 0, 0, 8, 18
4. 7, 0, 0, 19
5. 3, 0, 0, 23
6. 0, 0, 13, 13
7. 0, 0, 25, 1
8. 5, 0, 8, 13
So the final scores were:
South: 22 points
West: 0 points
North: 77 points
East: 109 points
By the end of the fifth hand, I knew that the program wasn't going to allow me to win this game, but I wanted to see how it turned out anyway. Note the number of 0-0-x-x rounds.
I guess West just was dealt the perfect cards for eight straight consecutive hands, eh?
L.B. Strawn says:
Here is a sample of my winnings when I first started keeping score,
6-25-97 0 110 92 84 7 hands
6-26-97 0 103 78 79 4 hands
7-10-97 0 117 116 105 5 hands
7-18-97 0 80 78 102 4 hands
7-24-97 0 80 78 102 4 hands
7-29-97 0 113 120 79 6 hands
7-30-97 0 99 107 80 5 hands
8-05-97 0 109 96 81 5 hands
8-20-97 0 80 114 92 5 hands
8-20-97 0 106 63 39 8 hands
8-25-97 0 53 108 73 5 hands
8-28-97 0 88 93 105 5 hands
My first ultimate score was
3-06-98 0 104 104 104 4(ULT)
3-25-98 0 70 56 108 5 hands
My second ultimate score was
4-06-98 0 104 104 104 4(ULT
I have 31 ultimate scores since I started keeping count
It is getting much harder to get an ultimate score, or even a zero, but I am still winning at 56%. Sometimes you have the make the machine think you don't know how to play, then you can take all 26 points.
People actually still play this game?
LOL.
yes, this game cheats
players (other than you) don't always follow suit accordingly
i've seen this many times while playing on the vista version
just watch and you'll see a higher heart or spade suddenly come out on the last trick (or so)that should have been thrown earlier in the hand
the game does this so it can get the desired scoring outcome for that hand
all the card rigging aside, not following the rules of the game is blatant cheating in anyone's book
I kept track of 100 "no pass" hands. I was dealt a singleton in one suit 17 times in those 100 hands. Seven times it was the queen of spades, twice the ace of spades, twice the king of spades, and six times just various cards, 8H, 9D, etc. Pretty remarkable.
Admittedly a non-scientific experiment, but some simple math says if you're dealt a singleton in a suit approximately 1 out of five hands, and there are 52 cards in the deck, you should be dealt one specific card as a singleton about once in 250 hands, not 7 timews in 100 hands. This is the kind of odds-defying crap that causes you to lose games you should win. Don't know why something like this is programmed into the game.
This happened in a recent game I played. 4th hand of game (first "hold'em" hand) I was dealt 3, 4, 6, 9 of diamonds. East took first trick (of course) and led 2 of diamonds. I played the 3, west played a heart and north played queen of spades. Yep, east had the other nine diamonds, west and north were BOTH void in diamonds. AND, east chose to lead a diamond instead of a spade as is the norm 90% of the time.
Then on 8th hand, I was dealt lone ace of spades. Luckily west took first trick and led a small spade. I thought I was going to be ok with the ace. Nope, east played his lone queen of spades, which I had to take with my lone ace.
Some pretty long odds on back-to-back "hold-em" hands in the same game. I really don't think this "just the way the cards fall".
It definitely cheats. The other players collude (one will hold a Heart and another will hold the Ace of Diamonds to take your King on the last trick). What it also does is when you have a good shoot the moon hand (say you have the A, K and Queen of Hearts) you'll get thrown the deuce and trey of Hearts which ruins it for you. What human in their right mind throws a two and three of Hearts? They can't possibly be trying to shoot the moon because I have all the high cards. It happens all the time. I can actually tell after the first couple of hands whether I will win that particular game. some games, no matter what you do, the machine will spoil it for you by impossible distributions of cards or ridiculous plays that only make sense because the machine knows what's in your hand.
Agree totally. I was leading everybody by at least 50 points. I had around 20 points, two hands in the 70's and one in the 90's. I was force-fed the QS four consecutive hands. Lost that game and 5 more in a row. Never got a break. It seemed like every hand I had just big enough cards to take the trick. If I had a five, the other guy had the four. If someone led a jack, I had the king, etc. If I managed to dodge the QS, I would end up with 8 or 10 hearts. If I tried a moon shoot, someone would hold a stopper. When one of the bots would shoot the moon, the other bots would trip over each other to rid themselves of stoppers.
Interesting posts. I've noticed a lot of what previous posters have mentioned. I even named the the "bots". One is Paul Hornung ( for you youngsters, Paul Hornung was a great football player for the Packers in the 60's and his nickname was "the Golden Boy"), the other two are "Patsy" Cline and Lee Majors (the Fall Guy).
WHAT IS WITH BEING DEALT THE 5 OF HEARTS AND THE OTHER THREE GUYS HAVING 2, 3, 4 ?!?. Got this deal three times in an 8 hand game.
hehe, I call taht the " cutesy play". It's the programmer's cute little way of letting us know how much smarter he/she is than all of us.
I'm probably the only guy here who likes the game. I have Win 7 and it doesn't renig. Yes, it is programmed for my demise, that's obvious. But that is a challenge. It's also predictable. Once you accept that it is what it is, you can formulate strategy.
I wish the programmer was identified by a number or something so I could avoid any other games designed by him. Can you imagine a "Texas Hold-em" game by this guy? How often would a bot fill an inside straight on the river, or hold many beats would you take with quads? No thanks. Can't believe game can't be programmed with RANDOM deals.
Rcent game I got passed the QS 7 of 8 hands, AND got dealt it on the two "no-pass" hands.
I don't think the game cheats. I do think it's stupid. I played on Vista and won about 55% over 8000ish games. Recently installed Windows 7 and I'm at 59% at 100+ games. If I counted cards as well as my 3 opponents, my %age would be higher.
Part of the problem is semantics. What if they kept track of, say, points, or 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th place finishes? You might not feel so badly.
The game *is* stupid. If it was as good as I was, and I don't count cards well, I would have a 25% win percentage. I get passed low spades all the time.
The game is pretty good about stopping shooters, however. How many times do you see an opponent wind up with 25. Maybe they got stopped on a shoot attempt.
I think streaks are just from randomness. You can't get good cards all the time, and sometimes your cards are going to be so bad you *will* lose. And sometimes that happens in bunches. But then sometimes you get long successful streaks, and then think that should be the norm, so it must be cheating the other times.
I'm pretty happy with the game, really. Good job, Microsoft.
That last post seems like an obvious post by an MS insider.
No one on the Vista version can win at that "claimed" winning percentage over time. Period.
We ran thousands of games on the Vista version in one of my stats classes. We proved over and over again how nonrandom the "deals" are.
Good. That makes two of us that like it. (Win 7) It's a challenge to survive. Good point about 25%. I'll bet most people are better than that. I play at 50%. Lots of streaks tho. Sometimes I get pissed off and reboot lol
Agreed that in a real game you would expect 25% wins. It's not just a streak of "bad" cards that lead to most losses, though. It's patterns of deals. Do this little experiment. Mark down on a sheet of paper which cards you get dealt as a singleton in a suit. It's really rather rare to only be dealt one card in any suit, but I bet you'll find the ace, king, and queen of spades show up a few times and I don't think you'll live long enough for every other card in the deck to show up on that list.
Being dealt the A, K, or Q of spades generally leads to a disastrous hand and often to a loss.
"That last post seems like an obvious post by an MS insider."
That's insane. There is no vast Microsoft conspiracy. They probably farmed hearts out to a consultant or gave it some very junior people and thought no more about it.
"No one on the Vista version can win at that "claimed" winning percentage over time. Period."
I did. Period. Some have probably done better, since, as I said, I don't really count cards well. And the game is pretty stupid. Maybe you should step up your game.
"We ran thousands of games on the Vista version in one of my stats classes. We proved over and over again how nonrandom the "deals" are."
Oh yeah right. You did deal by deal and entered the hands manually into a stats program. Thousands of them. Sure.
“There is no vast Microsoft conspiracy.”
No one said anything of the sort. Get a grip.
“I did. Period. Some have probably done better, since, as I said, I don't really count cards well. And the game is pretty stupid. Maybe you should step up your game.”
Utter BS on your part. (By the by, there were no claims as to my “game”.)
“Oh yeah right. You did deal by deal and entered the hands manually into a stats program. Thousands of them. Sure.”
Please. This was actually a pretty simple task. I don’t remember the exact number but as each group was responsible for tracking the results of at least 250 concluded games each, this amounted to some 5000+ games played. Once we had the data collected, we did all kinds of statistical analysis on it and it was clear how nonrandom the dealing is.
Defending MS Hearts, Win 7.
First of all this post doesn't apply to Vista players, there's nothing to be said if you have a corrupt version that renigs.
Imagine if they would have made a program that makes the same smart decisions that you do for any given situation in time. That program logic would be huge. You'd be lucky to win 25% of the time. You can't count cards and play odds like a program. It would make all decisions statistically. So instead they made a simple program and to make it a challenge it burns you with crappy passes. If it was truly random you would win more and be bored. I wish it was a program that went after the low man. Or was better at recognizing when it decides you might be shooting. But, it is what it is and I still like it.horinair
I don't know the first thing about programming, what is easy, what is difficult, or what is impossible. I still think the basic flaw with the game is the inability of the individual "bots" to play to win the game. If they did, they would target the low score and play to stop runs. I know they are capable of that because I've seen them stop me many times, even to the extent of taking the QS, but they don't stop each other. If the "defender" bot has one more heart than the "runner" bot, it will play the lower heart each time and allow the "runner" to be successful. The only time it "stops" a run is when the hearts are equal and the "defender" has the higher "last heart".
Ya, I've noticed that too. If you play long enough you notice trends. Like the deals on no pass hands are usually the best ones. And the one after you shoot are straight from Hell!
I agree with the poster a few posts ago. The computer players don't always follow suit. I've noticed this on more than a few occasions so it seems to me that the program is designed to outright cheat at times.
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